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[Music]

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wow

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts kate valentine

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and ferocia prepare to have your

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paradigms

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shifted into truth questioned

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and now shattered reality shattered

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reality

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hello people out there uh this is

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ferusha

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and i'm here with shattered reality

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podcast

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we have a great show for you today

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and just to slate this whole thing today

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is november 13 2018

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and it's just the day after

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veterans day has been observed in this

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country

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and um it's a good day

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for honoring continue continuing to

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honor our

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veterans and our show will reflect that

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a little bit

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today but first off um

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i want to tell everyone that has been

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asking

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about the return of kate valentine that

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she does

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want to return to the show but due to

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circumstances beyond her control she has

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not been able to make it

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but she is okay just for all those who

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were wondering about her health etc i've

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gotten a lot of questions

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in this edition i wanted to say hi

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to a couple of our

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listeners uh for starters we have a very

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interesting gentleman from finland

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who has contacted me with some

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interesting points of view and

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i'm going to try to say his first name

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it's either jiren or urine

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and since i am not able to speak the

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finnish language

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which is in itself not surprising

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given that uh it is only related

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basically to certain siberian languages

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um and hungarian i i

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don't know whether i should take the

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scandinavian and germanic route

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and call him yurin or jiren

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but in any case maybe he'll correct me

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and uh maybe he'll get back to me and

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have another few good words for

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shattered reality podcast

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the other listener that i wanted to

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mention today

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is david millar from uh fort worth

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texas who i've been corresponding with a

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little bit and

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also has some good ideas for the show

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so allow me to say hi to both of those

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guys

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and um you know they're tomorrow's men

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because

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they're listening to a woman talking

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which is kind of

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in any case getting back to today's

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show um we have

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a very special guest who was on

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shattered reality

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quite a while ago in the first few shows

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that we had and he had also been

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a guest on the kate valentine ufo show

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i'm talking about mac maloney who has

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written more than 50 books including

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ufos and wartime what they didn't want

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you to know

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and beyond area 51 plus

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he has written the best selling wingman

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military adventure series he served as a

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consultant for a government-funded

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research firm

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working with the us intelligence

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agencies

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and he is a member of the rock band

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sky club so um we love musicians on the

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show because our wonderful

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audio engineer is also a marvelous

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musician

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so welcome aboard mac maloney well uh

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thanks for having me

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my pleasure entirely so um given

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your uh background of writing so many

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books

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um and a lot of them are military

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adventures

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were you a member of the us military um

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no

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i i never served in the military i'm

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from a military family

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my father was a world war ii vet i had

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uncles in the korean war my brother was

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in the vietnam war

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but i went to college and i just

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am not the type of person to go along

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with the military life i knew it just

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wasn't for me you know i'd be

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i'd be in the brig in two weeks that

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type of thing so

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um but you know i have my hat's off to

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anyone who's done it and i

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you know when you're opening you said it

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just right you know it's we it's

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veteran's day or it was veterans day but

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you gotta

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because they gave

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part of their life to protect our

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country and what can you do you know you

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you have to tell them you know we'll

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never forget that absolutely and

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i was blown away i was sitting at

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um a desk of mine uh in manhattan

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at 11 11 a.m

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on sunday which was properly armistice

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day

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and it was the hundredth anniversary

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thereof

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and when i realized that it was 11 11

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11 11 100 years later and that sort of

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just blew me away mentally in a certain

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way

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right you know i mean world war one is

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you know i don't want to call it a

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forgotten law but it's

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it's it's kind of um world war ii shadow

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was over

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really over world war one all the time

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because it was a big conflict and so on

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but

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world war one was just awful it was just

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an awful

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way to go about combat it was the first

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wall with machine guns and you know

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really high explosives

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cannons poison gas and you know these

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soldiers living in these trenches with

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you know just filled with rats and

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sewerage and dead bodies around

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and and you know the only chance they

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get to get out of the trenches to charge

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into the machine guns you know it's just

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a horrible horrible war and the people

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who fought it

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and especially and the people who came

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back i don't know how many more

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how many are around these days probably

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not very many but we have we have to

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remember them we have to remember what

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what they did we can't forget what these

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people did

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we we certainly shouldn't and uh i will

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uh

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remember both of my grandfathers who

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served

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uh in the first world war and both came

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back

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thank god um so

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moving right along um

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let's talk about your current latest

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book

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mac maloney's haunted universe uh

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now that you've written more than 50

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books

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what exactly caused you to write this

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one what was your impetus let us say

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well um you know i got off at a

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publishing contract that's always you

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know

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rule number one never turn those down

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and

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the other books that i've written um are

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all fiction books as you mentioned at

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the beginning of the show wingman is uh

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you know a military fiction in the you

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know not so distant future type thing

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so this is a non-fiction book in the

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ufos and what time and beyond area 51

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were also non-fiction books and

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um you know i i just spoke to the

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publisher i had a lot of

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research lying around my office from the

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first two books

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and for a while i was writing for turner

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broadcasting

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systems web page called conspiratorium

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where we would just come up with like 10

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really crazy surveys every month and

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put them on the web page and i did that

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for a couple years and i had a lot of

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research left over from that so

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you know it as a way of cleaning my

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office i just put it all

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you know in a compilation and um and

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they published it

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this is a question that the book is

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great by the way i read it and it's

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really

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extremely interesting um and i want to

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make a a like uh something

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compare it to charles fort because the

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style of it

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is very much like the charles fort book

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um the book of the damned and

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low he had us a spin-off from the book

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of the damned

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called l-o-dot dot dot and

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uh it also featured uh somewhat short

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accounts

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of very mysterious things that he had

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collected from newspapers and such

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and so his methodology was not too dis

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different from yours

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in compiling this haunted universe book

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um and that believe me uh

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is a compliment because there's even a

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term

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that's called after him which of course

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is fortiana which

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everybody in paranormal circles uses

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sure i mean these are the kind of books

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that i like to read you know and and

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growing up as a kid i used to read a lot

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of uh ripley's believe it or not used to

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come out in book form every once in a

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while

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yes i read on youtube right and i just

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went through those

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you know probably three or four times

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this is as a kid

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and you know i think too that i think

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there's more than 250 stories in

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in in the book and as you say you know

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most of them are only you know two or

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three paragraphs long

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but it just just the sheer number of

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them alone in my mind

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just tells you that you know we live in

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a very kind of strange reality you know

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strange stuff happens all the time

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and you know when people see things that

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are extraordinary you know they're not

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all hoaxes and they're not all

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delusional you know they they can't be

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um there's just too

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many stories about people seeing

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monsters ufos

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ghosts haunted battlefields haunted

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planes haunted ships

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it happens just too often for them all

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to be not true

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so just the sheer volume of the stories

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in the book and think you know by the

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time you get the end of it you say well

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we really we really do live in a strange

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uh you know reality indeed indeed and

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um what i would say about the hoax

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versus

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uh there are undoubtedly some hoaxes

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going on

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out there particularly now with um

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cgi and certain say ufo stuff that turns

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up

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on youtube and uh people claiming that

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they're

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been away for 15 years ago last night

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and they only left yesterday morning but

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15 years happened in the interim and you

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know

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there are people just looking for

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publicity

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on the other hand this whole idea of

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delusions

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i think is oversold

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getting hoaxes delusions because people

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00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:17,200
experience

288
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:19,839
things and people's consciousness is

289
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:20,959
different

290
00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:24,399
and sometimes um like we've had a number

291
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:25,920
of people here

292
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:28,959
on the show who weren't really selling

293
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:32,079
anything but they were experiences

294
00:11:38,389 --> 00:11:35,440
of purported ufo sightings

295
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:38,399
and could i tell you exactly what really

296
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:39,279
happened

297
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:41,760
no i can't but what i can tell you is

298
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:43,040
these people

299
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:46,000
absolutely positively believe that

300
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:46,720
something

301
00:11:52,629 --> 00:11:49,920
happened to them and i do believe it did

302
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,639
and uh something happened whether their

303
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,480
their perception of what happened is

304
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,399
exactly what happened well

305
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:58,399
you know it's not for me to say donald

306
00:12:01,990 --> 00:11:59,920
trump i mean you know

307
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:02,000
what we talk about we we have our own

308
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:04,000
weekly show mac morning military x-files

309
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:04,800
show and

310
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:08,800
we talk about this subject a lot it in

311
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:12,160
one part of it is do ufos or do

312
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:16,000
do certain people um have paranormal

313
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:17,360
experiences more than others

314
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:19,200
you know or what i'm saying is uh

315
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:20,560
certain people

316
00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:24,320
almost selected in a way to be um

317
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:27,760
uh more open to a paranormal experience

318
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:28,800
like

319
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:30,639
myself i've never seen ufo i've never

320
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,839
seen a ghost

321
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:33,600
you know i've i've had little minor

322
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:34,959
things you know that i know that other

323
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:35,920
people have you know

324
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:38,800
experienced but um but you know i know

325
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:39,200
people

326
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,639
and i believe them who have seen like

327
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:42,639
more than two or three ufos i know

328
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:44,720
i know pilots you know we have pilots on

329
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:46,000
our show all the time one of our

330
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:47,519
co-hosts is a pilot

331
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:50,560
and a military pilot these guys seem

332
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:53,519
they see they see ufos all the time now

333
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,880
are ufos really

334
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:56,720
little green men from mars once again

335
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:58,000
you know you never know we don't know

336
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:59,120
where they're from i don't believe

337
00:13:01,750 --> 00:13:00,480
anyone knows where they're from

338
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,760
i don't believe the government knows i

339
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:03,519
don't believe the military knows i think

340
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,160
they have more

341
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:06,000
evidence that they exist i know they do

342
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:07,440
they have film video

343
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:10,399
eyewitnesses accounts radar and so on

344
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:12,959
but i don't believe that they know where

345
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:15,360
uh ufos come from so we're all kind of

346
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:16,720
in the same

347
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:18,160
you know the same soup you know

348
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:20,160
wondering what's going on but

349
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:22,720
the thing is is that why is it that some

350
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:24,320
people just seem to i don't want to say

351
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:25,120
they attract

352
00:13:28,949 --> 00:13:27,120
paranormal experiences but you know i

353
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:28,959
don't know how else to put it and then

354
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:30,639
some people definitely do not and i put

355
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:31,760
myself in that karen

356
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:35,200
category well i've seen a couple of um

357
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:37,200
a couple of things that i'd have to

358
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:38,800
classify as

359
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:42,079
ufos uh and i've had some i've had many

360
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:45,360
many many paranormal experiences myself

361
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:48,720
but then again that's my stock and trade

362
00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:49,199
i do

363
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:52,160
psychic readings for a living so there

364
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:53,120
you have it

365
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:56,639
um but on the other hand i do think that

366
00:14:01,910 --> 00:13:59,360
there are certain characteristics

367
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:01,920
of an individual which makes them

368
00:14:06,629 --> 00:14:03,600
slightly more likely

369
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:06,639
to have a paranormal experience of some

370
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:07,279
sort

371
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:10,399
uh first of all being in the arts

372
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:13,839
uh as often is something that is opening

373
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:14,399
to

374
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:18,000
other ways of thinking let us say

375
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:21,680
and being

376
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:24,959
being an open person not having made

377
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:26,959
every decision about everything

378
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,160
themselves

379
00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:30,560
uh sort of being open-minded that other

380
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:32,560
things might be true that you don't

381
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:35,279
know about or see just being open i

382
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:35,839
think is

383
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:39,360
is a big is a big big part of it

384
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:42,000
right yeah i agree and people that we

385
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:42,959
that i've talked to

386
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:44,800
over the years since writing ufos in

387
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:47,120
wartime and i've been kind of in the ufo

388
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:50,639
community um i can tell you know as you

389
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:52,079
say there are some people out there who

390
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:53,120
are just

391
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:54,240
hate to say it but they're just like

392
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:55,680
making it up you know they're just

393
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:57,760
making it up and to sell a book or to go

394
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:59,600
on a lecture circuit and so on

395
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:02,000
but i i have a feeling now after being

396
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:02,639
in

397
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:04,720
you know the biz for a few years is that

398
00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:06,399
i think i can tell pretty much when

399
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:07,600
someone is telling the truth when

400
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:09,519
they're talking about the ufo encounter

401
00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,560
because

402
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,560
you know they're they're they have

403
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:14,639
details in them just from an anecdotal

404
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,440
point of view

405
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:17,839
there are details in them that you know

406
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:18,959
even though even

407
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:22,079
the most the best storyteller could not

408
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:24,079
put in there later on tonight we're

409
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:25,680
going to do a show with a guy

410
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:28,000
he's been on before he had a really a

411
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:29,600
really um

412
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:32,160
graphic ufo sighting in georgia 20 years

413
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:32,720
ago

414
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:34,720
he was on his way to the dairy queen it

415
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:36,399
was so he called the dairy queen ufo

416
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:38,160
sighting he was on his way to the dairy

417
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:38,560
queen

418
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:41,120
and saw a ufo hovering over this uh

419
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:42,480
housing development that was under

420
00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:43,199
construction

421
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:44,800
he went right up to it now this guy's a

422
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,360
physicist and he thought physics

423
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:49,440
for a long time he's now retired and you

424
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:51,120
know he saw it he could feel the heat

425
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:52,399
from it and

426
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:53,680
you know he was looking at it from a

427
00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:55,440
scientific point of view and then boom

428
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:56,639
it was gone

429
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:59,519
um there's no way that just talking to

430
00:16:01,509 --> 00:16:00,000
this guy

431
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:01,519
and hearing you know what happened to

432
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,120
him there's no way he's making enough

433
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:05,440
there's no way that didn't happen to him

434
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:07,040
those are the people you know i'm

435
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:09,360
interested in absolutely and

436
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:12,320
and ourselves included we are interested

437
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:12,959
in

438
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:16,240
those sort of experiences people

439
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:19,759
of very good or impeccable credentials

440
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:23,040
people who are willing to uh

441
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:25,040
come out with it because i think a lot

442
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:28,160
more people have experienced ufos

443
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:30,880
than are willing to admit to it

444
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:32,160
particularly

445
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:35,360
if they are in sensitive positions

446
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:38,560
of trust and they feel

447
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:41,600
that admitting to having seen a ufo even

448
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:41,839
if

449
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:44,720
it's not a close encounter of the third

450
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:45,759
kind

451
00:16:50,069 --> 00:16:49,040
with actual uh beings from inside the

452
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:50,079
ufo

453
00:16:53,749 --> 00:16:52,880
i i think that people are reticent to

454
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:53,759
admit

455
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:56,800
uh to it so they say they whoever they

456
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:57,360
are but

457
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:01,279
uh they say only 10 of ufo

458
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:04,319
sightings get reported if that

459
00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:07,839
right and you know um you're

460
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,400
correct on especially with military

461
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:12,079
veterans once again we hear from them

462
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:13,199
all the time

463
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:14,880
people who get in touch with us and they

464
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,880
say you know when i was serving back in

465
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:18,480
1982 i

466
00:17:22,390 --> 00:17:19,839
you know was out in the desert we saw

467
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:22,400
this thing uh you know it it wasn't

468
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,679
anything of this earth but our

469
00:17:26,789 --> 00:17:25,439
commanding officer told everyone

470
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,799
never talk about this or it's going to

471
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:28,319
you know ruin your military pension or

472
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:28,799
whatever

473
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:30,960
we we hear a lot from people who you

474
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:32,480
know hate to use word threatened but

475
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:34,160
they were told you have to keep quiet

476
00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:35,760
about this because of national

477
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:38,720
security or whatever if if those people

478
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,480
this is you know we petitioned

479
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:43,200
on our show for this uh occasionally to

480
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:45,039
say to the pentagon give these people

481
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,720
amnesty anyone who was told while

482
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:48,559
they're in the service not to talk about

483
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,120
a ufo sighting they had for security

484
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:53,280
purposes give those people amnesty

485
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:55,440
and can you imagine the tidal wave of

486
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:57,039
research that we would get

487
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:59,360
we'd get thousands of thousands or more

488
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:00,880
ufo sightings and

489
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:02,559
more things to study more things to look

490
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:04,000
into and kind of get us

491
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:06,000
closer to solving the puzzle you know so

492
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:07,760
military veterans a lot a lot of them

493
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:10,320
saw stuff in to this day they they just

494
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:11,840
don't want to talk about it because of

495
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:12,880
what they were told

496
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:14,799
airline island airline pilots are

497
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,160
another case

498
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:18,320
where they see them all the time but

499
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:20,080
they don't report them because as you

500
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:21,760
say there's a ridicule factor it's been

501
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:23,200
around ever since ufos

502
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:24,960
flying saucers have been around and they

503
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:26,320
know when they go in for

504
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:28,240
their promotion if they're up against

505
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:30,720
someone who has not reported ufo

506
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,320
uh you know incident he's going to get

507
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:34,080
the job he's going to get the promotion

508
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:34,480
so

509
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:36,240
you keep quiet about it it's too bad

510
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,919
it's like that but that's

511
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,840
that's the reality of it well that's

512
00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:41,200
true and um

513
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:44,720
we know this from direct uh quotes from

514
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,520
people

515
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:48,240
who were at rendelsham forest during

516
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:49,280
that incident

517
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:52,880
uh back i guess it was 1980 um

518
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:55,440
and they felt like their military career

519
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:56,720
was disrupted

520
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:59,120
through no fault of their own because

521
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:01,280
they saw this very

522
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:04,320
real sighting we don't know what exactly

523
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:05,280
it was

524
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:10,640
multiple multiple witnesses and it

525
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:11,360
wasn't

526
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:14,320
it was not of this earth in the sense

527
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:14,720
that

528
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:18,000
right uh it wasn't from any uh human

529
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,559
government

530
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,160
on the earth i mean some people talk

531
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:22,240
about ultra-terrestrials and stuff like

532
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:22,880
that and

533
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:25,360
i think it's all just a conjecture it

534
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:26,720
could be right but it is

535
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:29,760
it is also conjecture so let's get back

536
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:30,640
a little bit

537
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:33,760
to mac maloney's haunted universe and

538
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:37,280
um discuss a little bit what was your

539
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:38,400
favorite account

540
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:41,760
in the book wow

541
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,960
um well this is there's a number most of

542
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,880
the stories as they say are just two or

543
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:48,400
three paragraphs long but there are a

544
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,120
few

545
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:51,440
segments in there that we go on for

546
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:53,280
several pages and it's actually the last

547
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:54,720
story in the book

548
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,640
is about a place in russia called the m

549
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:58,320
triangle that was my

550
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:01,360
favorite tool oh wow yeah that is just

551
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:04,720
that's just that's just such a unusual

552
00:20:08,390 --> 00:20:06,159
crazy place basically it's

553
00:20:09,909 --> 00:20:08,400
it's a place in russia near the euro

554
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:09,919
mountains and

555
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:13,120
it's i think 40 square miles it's

556
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:17,200
just forest uh trees lakes and streams

557
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:18,400
but it's really out in the middle of

558
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:20,960
nowhere so for years

559
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,200
the soviet government would not let

560
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,880
anyone in there wouldn't let journalists

561
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:26,720
or civilians into this place because

562
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,720
it's always carried this kind of

563
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:30,720
uh taboo about it but then when things

564
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,280
kind of softened there in the late 80s

565
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:35,360
uh they did let scientists and

566
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:37,280
journalists go into this place and and

567
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:39,760
if they would quit on these um

568
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:41,679
expeditions for two weeks and camp out

569
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:43,039
basically but some of the things they

570
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,559
reported that they saw

571
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:46,799
i mean ufos were routine the stars

572
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:48,320
dancing around the stars

573
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:50,640
forming different you know geometric

574
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:51,760
shapes in the sky

575
00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:54,960
um just beings not of this earth

576
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:56,480
glowing orbs that would come and sit

577
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:58,400
right over their campsite you know for

578
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:01,600
a long long periods of time there's a

579
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:02,000
place

580
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,520
where you camp out in the woods you're

581
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:05,520
in the dense flowers you you can hear

582
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:06,480
traffic

583
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:09,840
um you cannot make a phone call anywhere

584
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:11,600
in this place except in this three by

585
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:13,200
three square that they call the phone

586
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:13,679
booth

587
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:15,440
for some reason if you are standing in

588
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:17,919
this square out the middle of nowhere

589
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:19,679
you can make a phone call take one step

590
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:21,039
out of it you can't it just

591
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:23,039
it's it goes on and on and on but a lot

592
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,720
of people say that what happens

593
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,640
is when they go in to the m triangle

594
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:28,640
they come out they feel different

595
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:30,640
some people have been cured of um you

596
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:32,720
know serious diseases

597
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:34,159
most people come out for the better they

598
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:35,679
have like a you know their their

599
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:37,360
consciousness has been raised who knows

600
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:38,880
you know what it really is but

601
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,480
real quick the story that stands out

602
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:42,000
which makes this my favorite story in

603
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,880
the book is

604
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:45,120
that there was a gentleman a russian

605
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:46,559
gentleman who was washed out of the

606
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:48,720
soviet army this is in the 80s now

607
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:50,720
uh was bumming around and had no job

608
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:52,240
finally caught on as a journalist in

609
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:53,039
moscow

610
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,960
they sent him to the m triangle and he

611
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:56,720
went in with one of the first

612
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:58,880
expeditions it's really just as i say

613
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,320
two weeks of camping out

614
00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:02,720
but um there is also a people magazine

615
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:03,520
reporter on

616
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:06,640
in the same expedition so uh

617
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:08,559
she documented what was going on with

618
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:10,559
this guy now this guy was no einstein he

619
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:13,120
was no genius but when he left after two

620
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:14,799
weeks he went back to moscow he wrote

621
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:15,760
his story

622
00:22:20,789 --> 00:22:19,039
you know passed it in and and then all

623
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:20,799
of a sudden he started

624
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:22,559
getting a knowledge of astrophysics and

625
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:24,640
he was suddenly able to read math books

626
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:27,280
and physics books and astrophysics books

627
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:29,760
something that you know had never even

628
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:31,039
dawned on him before

629
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:38,149
okay now what happened to him in there

630
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,960
you know what

631
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:40,799
what is going on in the mri and there's

632
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:42,240
lots of stories

633
00:22:45,669 --> 00:22:44,240
about similar things like that that's

634
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:45,679
the most dramatic but people's lives

635
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:46,320
being changed

636
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,799
simply by being in this place that's

637
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:50,320
going to be my favorite story

638
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:53,039
indeed and the only thing i can compare

639
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:54,159
that to

640
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:56,960
is that sometimes people who have a

641
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:57,760
near-death

642
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:00,799
experience will come back

643
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:04,000
from that knowing stuff that they didn't

644
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:04,799
know

645
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:08,159
prior to that right sure yeah and

646
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,080
and a lot of people say now now that

647
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:12,080
things have gone the other way in russia

648
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,400
now

649
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:14,720
they're closing this place down and the

650
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,320
the security services

651
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:18,480
have always been watching this place but

652
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:20,159
they're not they don't have the access

653
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:20,720
that

654
00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:24,240
military watches

655
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:25,760
close you know closely watches this

656
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:28,080
place so do the security services the

657
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:29,600
what is now the it would used to be the

658
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:31,280
kgb and

659
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:32,960
you know people have asked why why this

660
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:35,039
place and this all kinds of rumors is

661
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:37,840
uranium in the ground and it used to be

662
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:39,039
a place where they made

663
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,960
you know batteries that were radioactive

664
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:42,720
but you know there's no proof of any of

665
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:43,679
this

666
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:45,440
the outstanding evidence the in the

667
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:46,880
piles of evidence is just

668
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:49,039
how people change when they go to this

669
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:50,640
place for a couple weeks

670
00:23:54,549 --> 00:23:53,360
interesting i i i hope that there are

671
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,559
more scientific

672
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:56,799
studies done on this place have you

673
00:24:01,909 --> 00:23:59,600
yourself thought of visiting it mac

674
00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:01,919
well yeah i'd love to go you know um

675
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:03,279
it's it's it would have been

676
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,679
easier to do i'd say about 10 years ago

677
00:24:10,149 --> 00:24:07,279
you know when things were just a little

678
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,159
bit better between the us and russia now

679
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,760
yeah i don't think they're going to let

680
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:14,159
they don't let russian journalists in so

681
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:15,520
they're probably going to let an

682
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:17,360
american journalist in but hey you never

683
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:18,799
know never say never right

684
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:22,480
yeah i i i was over uh to what was the

685
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:25,039
former soviet union about a year before

686
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:26,080
glasgow's

687
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:29,360
and it was it was a bizarre it was a

688
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:31,120
bizarre place overall

689
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:34,159
taking taking a group of people through

690
00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:36,880
um what is now russia and the ukraine

691
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:39,120
and being followed everywhere we went by

692
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:40,480
the kgb

693
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:43,360
sure was quite an experience even back

694
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:44,080
then

695
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:48,159
um but um the fire the way the fire

696
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:51,440
goes inside this triangle um you had

697
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:52,480
said that uh

698
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:55,600
there was uh situations where uh even a

699
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:56,159
small

700
00:25:02,789 --> 00:24:59,520
flame can suddenly explode right yep

701
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:02,799
and um uh sometimes

702
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:04,960
the i think the the the odd thing about

703
00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:06,159
it is all right

704
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:08,400
the many odd things about it is that it

705
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:09,600
almost seems like a

706
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:12,400
an area where everything is kind of

707
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:13,440
compressed

708
00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:17,120
crazy stuff that goes on around the

709
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:18,960
seems to be more concentrated

710
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,720
you know people call them the hot spots

711
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:22,320
but this is the hot spot

712
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,679
beyond hot spots i mean no one has ever

713
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:27,520
you know documented so many strange

714
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:29,600
things happening and when i say ufos are

715
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:30,559
routine i mean they're

716
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:33,600
literally routine and and and people

717
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:34,880
running into

718
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,960
creatures not of this earth and then the

719
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:38,559
animals and the fish coming right up to

720
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:39,360
people

721
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:41,360
having no fear of humans you know where

722
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:42,720
does that happen

723
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:45,440
so i don't know now that now that you've

724
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:46,799
mentioned i think i would like to go

725
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:47,440
over there

726
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:50,480
yeah i i i think that um

727
00:25:57,830 --> 00:25:54,080
beneath the surface of mac maloney lies

728
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,840
uh a strong desire to become a more

729
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,760
hands-on researcher

730
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:01,440
well you know my problem is i shouldn't

731
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:03,120
admit it here but i don't like to fly

732
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,880
that's that holds me back from doing a

733
00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:06,880
lot of things to tell you the truth but

734
00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:09,039
you know if it's if it's if the goal is

735
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:10,480
you know worthy enough i would just you

736
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:11,760
know

737
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:13,440
self-medicate and get on the plane you

738
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:15,039
know okay well you know

739
00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:17,039
planes are pretty safe these days but

740
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:18,559
there can always be a

741
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:22,480
it can always be a problem which um

742
00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:24,320
i was going to go in a little bit later

743
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:26,080
in the show to ask you

744
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:29,919
about what you thought about um

745
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:32,080
some of these things that are seen over

746
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:33,840
the u.s being

747
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:37,279
uh actually uh craft

748
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:42,000
that are being tested by the government

749
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:44,960
well you know a lot of what people see

750
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:46,400
that's exactly what they are

751
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:49,039
um there's a lot of um especially in the

752
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:49,760
uh

753
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:52,960
desert

754
00:26:59,669 --> 00:26:57,600
area 51

755
00:27:02,870 --> 00:26:59,679
is exactly what the government tells us

756
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:02,880
it is okay it's a place where they test

757
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:06,640
our top secret uh newly designed

758
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,360
uh combat aircraft of the future i mean

759
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:11,440
that's what it is in spycraft

760
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:14,720
but they have so many different things

761
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:16,880
going on out there for instance

762
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:20,240
um for every stealth fighter for every

763
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:21,679
stealth bomber that

764
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:24,159
they reveal to us there's probably eight

765
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,200
or nine

766
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:27,520
variations of it that are either a

767
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:28,799
prototype stage

768
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:30,240
or they're ones that they're not going

769
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:31,760
to reveal to us there's a lot of

770
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:33,600
activity going on out there

771
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:35,520
and if you're you know you can't get

772
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:37,440
within 40 miles of it now but if you

773
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:39,919
if you watch what's going on um you know

774
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:41,760
in the skies over here 51

775
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,520
people see things that you know yes they

776
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:45,600
don't look they don't look like they

777
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:46,559
should be happening

778
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:49,120
but you know we have maybe hypersonic

779
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:50,000
airplanes some

780
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:52,399
airplanes that might go 5 000 6 000

781
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:53,600
miles an hour

782
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:56,640
um you know unbelievable you know the

783
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:58,640
aircraft that could just be unbelievably

784
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:59,760
maneuverable

785
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:01,360
and you're seeing just lights in the sky

786
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:02,799
go all over the place well maybe that's

787
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:03,440
somebody

788
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:05,279
you know in a plane that just is just

789
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:07,600
has just out of the envelope type of

790
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:10,640
maneuverability sure um they also

791
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:13,120
another thing they do there is that they

792
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:14,080
take caption

793
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:16,399
captured russian and chinese jet

794
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:17,120
fighters

795
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:19,760
and they have american pilots fly them

796
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:20,399
and then

797
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:23,840
our pilots fly against them they're

798
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:25,760
it's kind of like a mock duel but it's

799
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:27,039
it's it's a way

800
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:28,960
that our pilots know you know what a

801
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,399
russian mega is going to do with this

802
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:32,320
certain kind of this this that

803
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:35,039
this you know high low turning whatever

804
00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:36,799
so they do that too and that's uh that's

805
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:38,799
obviously highly secret as well

806
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:42,240
so just a lot of secret aircraft studies

807
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,880
things that

808
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:44,480
would probably blow our minds if we know

809
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:46,720
now but but that's what a lot of people

810
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:48,080
see out there now

811
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:49,760
but that's not all they see out there

812
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:51,200
obviously you know because there's a

813
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:52,640
difference from seeing things

814
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:54,559
in the sky moving fast you're moving

815
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:57,039
strangely and you know a saucer-shaped

816
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:58,559
craft coming down in your backyard

817
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,320
there's a difference between that

818
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:02,480
um but i have to say a lot of it does

819
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:03,840
happen out in the west and deserts

820
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,640
either

821
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:06,960
explain or unexplainable well some of

822
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,000
the so-called

823
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:10,799
portal areas you've mentioned a few

824
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,559
portal areas in the book

825
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:15,120
but some of the so-called portal areas

826
00:29:19,029 --> 00:29:15,679
exist

827
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:19,039
in the west area 51 i don't

828
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:22,480
consider a portal area it seems to be

829
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:26,480
someplace as you say which is like a a

830
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:30,000
an airplane proving ground as well as

831
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:32,799
some place where things may have been

832
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:33,600
taken

833
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:36,640
if an uh a craft of unknown

834
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:39,679
origin in other words not

835
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:42,399
of the earth's government might have

836
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:44,240
been taken

837
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:46,080
there were places out there though that

838
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:47,760
um and this just goes back to

839
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:50,000
my second book which is beyond area 51

840
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:51,440
which is a book about

841
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:53,440
we just take all the secret bases like

842
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,799
area 50 run around

843
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:56,000
around the world would just give a

844
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,080
little bit of a history of each one and

845
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,480
a lot of them you know the vast majority

846
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:02,480
do have kind of ufo histories attached

847
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:03,120
to them

848
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:05,440
but there's a place about 100 miles now

849
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:08,159
about 75 miles north of area 51

850
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:10,320
that is much more secret than area 51

851
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:12,799
it's a place called tonopah test range

852
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:15,520
and it's about halfway between it it's

853
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:15,840
about

854
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:18,080
right in the middle of nevada and it's

855
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:19,200
out in the middle of the

856
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:20,640
out in the desert there's tone apart the

857
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:22,399
city of toronto power is about 2 000

858
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:24,240
people the base itself is about 40 miles

859
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:25,760
out of the desert and they test stuff

860
00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:26,960
out there

861
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:28,559
well for instance they the stealth

862
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:30,480
fighter flew out there for 10 years and

863
00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:31,600
no one ever knew it

864
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,520
okay that's how tightly sealed this

865
00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:35,520
place is

866
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:38,399
for it to leave nevada airspace

867
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:39,919
sometimes if they had to do some some

868
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:40,880
kind of test that would

869
00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:42,880
one of them to fly longer or whatever

870
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:44,720
higher off further out

871
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,559
they had to get a presidential order to

872
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,799
let it go into california airspace this

873
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:50,399
is you know how tightly wrapped this

874
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,840
program was right

875
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:53,360
you never hear about it you'd never hear

876
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:54,559
about tone of power the strange thing

877
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:55,919
about it and we pointed out on this book

878
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:57,039
is that

879
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:59,600
um the tone of the probably the most

880
00:31:01,909 --> 00:31:00,880
secret base in the united states

881
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:01,919
certainly for aircraft

882
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:04,880
has absolutely no ufo history and and

883
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:06,640
that is to me that's very strange you

884
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,720
know that's almost like

885
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,399
whatever ufos are they're actually

886
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:11,840
avoiding this place because they're

887
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:12,640
everywhere else

888
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:16,240
but they're not there hmm

889
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:19,760
hmm that's interesting they don't go

890
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:20,159
there

891
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:23,200
or they don't you know it's strange too

892
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:24,000
but it is that

893
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:26,799
it's at this little town of tonopah uh

894
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:28,640
which is about halfway between reno and

895
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,080
in vegas it it bills itself as the

896
00:31:36,549 --> 00:31:34,720
astronomers uh the best place in the

897
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,559
united states for astronomers to go so

898
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:37,840
there were people out there all the time

899
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:39,519
tour groups and stuff

900
00:31:44,830 --> 00:31:42,720
with with hundreds of telescopes and

901
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:44,840
you know looking at the skies probably

902
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,799
365 days a year

903
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,200
but there's no ufo reports yet you just

904
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:51,440
go down to vegas go go 100 miles outside

905
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:52,480
of this place

906
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:54,960
and you know i mean i think nevada is

907
00:31:59,830 --> 00:31:56,880
the fifth highest number of

908
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:59,840
ufo sightings in the country so very odd

909
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:01,200
that they just don't go to this

910
00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:05,039
very very secret place yes it is and and

911
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:06,240
there are other

912
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:09,360
unusual places uh that are portal areas

913
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:13,440
in the west like um the skinwalker ranch

914
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:17,039
and um which is in the unita basin in

915
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:20,240
utah and the um area

916
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:24,320
around um oh boy in arizona

917
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:27,760
sedona arizona where i in fact had some

918
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,480
strange experiences though not ufo

919
00:32:35,669 --> 00:32:32,480
experiences it does seem

920
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:35,679
as though um the under

921
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:38,559
what's underlying in the ground

922
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:39,360
sometimes

923
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:42,320
has an effect like if it's a lot of

924
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:43,279
quartz or

925
00:32:50,389 --> 00:32:47,200
granite or certain other stones seem to

926
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:50,399
create electromagnetic effects that

927
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:54,159
either incite some of these sightings

928
00:33:02,389 --> 00:32:58,320
or else that makes maybe something that

929
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:02,399
the the beings inside the ufos may be

930
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,200
looking for that energy i'm not sure

931
00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:07,120
there's a place we have this in the book

932
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:08,799
as well there's a place called

933
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:12,559
uh okay it's in the very

934
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:15,600
furthest farthest western part of china

935
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:17,360
on the border with india

936
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:19,440
in the himalayas okay it's it's one of

937
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,880
the most isolated places

938
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:23,039
on earth and it's it's you know miles

939
00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:24,240
high into

940
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:26,159
you know the elevation of the mountains

941
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:27,600
it's they're way way up there

942
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,360
snow all the time brutal weather all the

943
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:31,200
time um

944
00:33:36,070 --> 00:33:34,320
in 1962 during the cuban missile crisis

945
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:36,080
uh people you know might not be aware of

946
00:33:41,110 --> 00:33:37,360
this

947
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:41,120
the um chinese and the indians fought a

948
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:41,519
war

949
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:44,159
over this place aksai chin all right the

950
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:44,640
most

951
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,720
unbelievably unforgiving place

952
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:48,240
inhospitable place in the world they

953
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,760
literally fought a wall while everyone's

954
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:50,799
attention

955
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:53,279
was focused on the cuban missile crisis

956
00:33:56,230 --> 00:33:54,640
these two countries are fighting each

957
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:56,240
other over this place now

958
00:33:59,509 --> 00:33:58,159
the strange thing about this place is

959
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:59,519
and then they stopped after two weeks

960
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:00,720
they stopped

961
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:03,039
um the strange thing about this place is

962
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:03,760
it has a

963
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:06,080
long long long history of ufo sightings

964
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:07,519
going back hundreds and hundreds of

965
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:08,480
years

966
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,159
um you know not to say that's what they

967
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:12,159
were fighting about but it's a strange

968
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:14,480
place to fight so some researchers went

969
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:16,000
up into this place afterwards and they

970
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:17,599
went into this one village

971
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:19,679
and this is an anecdote you know and and

972
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:21,679
but i've read it you know i've i've seen

973
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:23,040
it in several

974
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:25,280
years of research where they went to the

975
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:26,240
kids

976
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,359
and and said draw what you see every day

977
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:31,440
what do you see in an unusual day now

978
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:32,399
these kids had

979
00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:34,000
they barely had books they had no tv

980
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:35,679
radio nothing so whatever they're going

981
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:37,200
to draw is really something that happens

982
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,679
to them

983
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,679
and like you know 70 of them drew what

984
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:41,679
you would say were flying sauces

985
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:43,440
coming out of the mountains and this is

986
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:44,879
a place as you say

987
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,639
it's like where the two pieces of the

988
00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:48,480
earth crust meat you know that's what

989
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:49,520
formed the mountains

990
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:50,800
right and who knows what kind of you

991
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:52,639
know energy who knows what's down there

992
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,280
but

993
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:55,440
you just have this strange place out in

994
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:56,320
the middle of nowhere

995
00:34:59,510 --> 00:34:58,800
up in the himalayas with a lot of ufos

996
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:59,520
you know

997
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:01,599
in its history and for some reason red

998
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:04,000
china and india fight a war over it

999
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:07,680
um back in 1962. was that the the

1000
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:10,720
the place or is the largest city called

1001
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:13,760
alta atai is that the same

1002
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:16,720
location that i'm thinking of um i'm not

1003
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:17,119
sure

1004
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:19,280
that it could be i know that this this

1005
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:20,400
is one of the

1006
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:23,359
least populated places on earth okay

1007
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,040
well i haven't been to the

1008
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:27,280
uh himalayas yet i don't think i'm gonna

1009
00:35:33,190 --> 00:35:29,359
get there this time around but

1010
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:33,200
it certainly is quite um

1011
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:36,000
quite a remote location and there are a

1012
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:36,480
lot of

1013
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:39,680
interesting spiritual uh

1014
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:43,040
groups that have called that area home

1015
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:46,720
including uh the uh the dalai lama

1016
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:50,640
and prior to tibetan buddhism was of

1017
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,359
course

1018
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:53,520
the bond tradition now the bond

1019
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:55,440
tradition if you're familiar with it at

1020
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:56,160
all

1021
00:36:02,790 --> 00:35:59,520
uh it it uh has a lot of

1022
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:02,800
uh absolutely out and out magical pr

1023
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:05,440
practices involved with the religion

1024
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:05,920
that

1025
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:10,000
they do magic

1026
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:12,640
for themselves against others all kinds

1027
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:15,119
of different things and have a lot of

1028
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:18,640
dream significance of dreams similar to

1029
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:19,440
those

1030
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:22,640
of certain tribes in the south pacific

1031
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:24,480
and in south america i just throw that

1032
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:27,280
in i don't know that's interesting wow

1033
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:30,400
um you have uh some of of your

1034
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:33,599
uh book is about um spying

1035
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:36,400
and how we are being spied on today

1036
00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:37,359
would you like to

1037
00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:40,880
um expand a little on that

1038
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:42,880
sure i mean um you know it's no secret

1039
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:44,480
that you know what we would

1040
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:47,200
term privacy just 30 years ago you know

1041
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:48,720
it's it's no longer around it it

1042
00:36:53,349 --> 00:36:50,079
probably isn't going to come back

1043
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:53,359
but the u.s has a satellite

1044
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:56,560
uh called the keyhole satellite and it's

1045
00:37:02,950 --> 00:36:59,200
uh orbiting somewhere around 125 miles

1046
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:02,960
up and and

1047
00:37:07,750 --> 00:37:06,160
it can look down on you and in in the

1048
00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:07,760
lenses

1049
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:10,480
um so powerful that if you're carrying a

1050
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:11,119
parent

1051
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:13,920
a pack of cigarettes in your pocket you

1052
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,599
can tell the brand of cigarettes it can

1053
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:17,200
count the buttons on your shirt

1054
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:19,680
oh jeez now here's here's the here's the

1055
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:20,560
punch line

1056
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:21,760
this thing has been up there flying

1057
00:37:25,829 --> 00:37:24,400
since the 70s this is now

1058
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:25,839
an old satellite that's probably been

1059
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:27,839
retired

1060
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:30,800
can you imagine what they have now the

1061
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:31,200
the

1062
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:44,800
of a person who worked

1063
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:48,160
as a tactician for the government for

1064
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,280
many years and got very high into

1065
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:53,760
being you know a non-governmental

1066
00:37:58,950 --> 00:37:55,440
governmental person

1067
00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:58,960
if you know what i mean and

1068
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:02,240
she said to me that her dad's

1069
00:38:09,030 --> 00:38:05,599
concern was that they were just

1070
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:09,040
collecting all of this data constantly

1071
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:09,599
through

1072
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:12,640
whatever form of spying but nobody was

1073
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:14,560
keeping track of it they had plenty of

1074
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:16,160
data and they had

1075
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:19,359
a poor amount of analysts the analysts

1076
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:21,119
were

1077
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:24,400
considering not so much

1078
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:27,520
the invasion of privacy but the idea of

1079
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:30,720
the fact that some of the people out

1080
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,000
there anyway we're trying to

1081
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,800
protect us from quote unquote the bad

1082
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:36,960
guys and there are bad guys out there no

1083
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:37,760
doubt

1084
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:41,520
yep but um she said that

1085
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:44,800
they had so much data and and the

1086
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:45,920
analysts

1087
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:50,560
forth

1088
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:54,320
and um sadly she basically

1089
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:56,400
although her parents were out of it at

1090
00:39:00,150 --> 00:38:57,760
that point she

1091
00:39:00,870 --> 00:39:00,160
sort of felt like the whole 9 11 thing

1092
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:00,880
was

1093
00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:04,720
perhaps due to lack of analysis of data

1094
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:08,000
i don't know well uh that could be

1095
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:09,520
you know that that's one reason i mean

1096
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:12,079
there is definitely a case where

1097
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:13,839
you can have too much intelligence you

1098
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:16,000
know and and it's just it overwhelms you

1099
00:39:19,109 --> 00:39:17,440
because as you say you don't have enough

1100
00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:19,119
people to interpret it

1101
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:20,800
and to kind of put it into real time

1102
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:23,599
let's say um

1103
00:39:27,910 --> 00:39:26,640
to me 911 was something that i i well we

1104
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:27,920
don't want to get into conspiracy

1105
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,359
theories it happened

1106
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:32,160
and you know four planes crashed and you

1107
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:33,680
know two planes took down the towers and

1108
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:35,119
one crashed into the pentagon one

1109
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:36,560
crashed in a field

1110
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:38,880
but there's a lot of evidence that some

1111
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:40,160
people knew

1112
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:41,760
the intelligence agencies and in the

1113
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:43,920
political you know part of washington dc

1114
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,760
they knew something was going to happen

1115
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:47,599
and it just seems like for some reason

1116
00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:48,960
they sat in their hands at the wrong

1117
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:50,320
time who knows why

1118
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:53,520
yeah well i guess we we won't know

1119
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:56,640
that answer until maybe after

1120
00:40:02,710 --> 00:39:59,680
uh after we're long gone you and i mac

1121
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:02,720
uh it won't come out maybe um

1122
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:06,000
but uh [\h__\h] just getting back

1123
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:08,960
for a second to the uh the idea of

1124
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:10,480
collecting

1125
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:14,160
uh intel and then being able to use it

1126
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:18,160
uh purportedly i think that the the

1127
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:20,720
governmental agencies may have improved

1128
00:40:25,470 --> 00:40:21,760
upon

1129
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:25,480
uh the sorting of the intel through um

1130
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:28,800
aai and the algorithm system

1131
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:31,280
kind of thing that they are able to you

1132
00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:31,839
know if you

1133
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:35,119
if if you have a pack of uh marlboros in

1134
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:36,560
your pocket uh

1135
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:40,079
that won't come up on the algorithm

1136
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,800
uh no but it might go to directly to you

1137
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:44,400
know reynolds tobacco

1138
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:46,240
to tell you to tell them that they

1139
00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:47,920
spotted you know one of your customers

1140
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,560
see that's

1141
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:50,240
that's the danger too as you know years

1142
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:51,599
ago when people used to think big

1143
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:52,560
brother and they're going to know

1144
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:53,760
everything

1145
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:55,119
they always thought that it was the

1146
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:56,720
government and to a certain extent it is

1147
00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:57,680
the government

1148
00:41:01,030 --> 00:40:59,200
but the people we really have to fear

1149
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:01,040
knowing all this stuff are the

1150
00:41:04,230 --> 00:41:02,800
you know the the commercial interests

1151
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:04,240
the manufacturers the people who are

1152
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:05,119
always trying to

1153
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:07,839
you know sell us some um we have a story

1154
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:08,319
in the book

1155
00:41:15,109 --> 00:41:12,240
about how when this when amazon starts

1156
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:15,119
you know delivering stuff by drone one

1157
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:16,079
of the biggest problems

1158
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:18,160
is is that that they still have to you

1159
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:20,000
know iron out if they ever do is that

1160
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:22,000
these drones gonna have cameras on it

1161
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:23,440
and they're gonna see what kind of car

1162
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:25,760
you drive what kind of lawn fertilizer

1163
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:27,520
you use what kind of beach furniture you

1164
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:27,920
have

1165
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:31,760
sell that

1166
00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:33,520
information directly to the roofing

1167
00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:35,200
companies the beach furniture companies

1168
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:35,440
and

1169
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:39,520
these these

1170
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:42,560
new cars um uh loaded with what we used

1171
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:44,240
to call black boxes

1172
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:46,240
taking down every move that you make

1173
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:48,079
every move you make and not just am i

1174
00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:49,599
going fast by going slow if you get in

1175
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:51,200
an accident they can actually

1176
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,520
you know turn the evidence against you

1177
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:55,200
and say that you were the one

1178
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:56,800
you know who are driving recklessly but

1179
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:58,640
what they're doing is every time you

1180
00:42:01,190 --> 00:42:00,560
stop at a quickie mod every time you

1181
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:01,200
pick up a

1182
00:42:04,630 --> 00:42:03,200
six-pack of budweiser and so on and so

1183
00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:04,640
forth they're going to take that

1184
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:06,160
information and sell it

1185
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,440
to budweiser you know and that's what

1186
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:11,680
advertisers have wanted forever right

1187
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:12,640
this is their heaven

1188
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:15,599
okay to know what the individual does

1189
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:16,960
with their day and what

1190
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:18,720
products do they buy because we're all

1191
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:20,720
kind of routine people you know

1192
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,880
absolutely and that's that's that's what

1193
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:23,920
you're giving up

1194
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:27,680
terms of the

1195
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:30,800
um the cigarettes in your pocket uh

1196
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:33,599
they may be reported to your health

1197
00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:35,040
insurance company

1198
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,079
and your life insurance policy

1199
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:40,480
so uh you find suddenly that your

1200
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:42,160
premiums are jacked up

1201
00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:43,760
type of thing and it really hits you in

1202
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:45,839
the pocketbook and i'm sure you've had

1203
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:48,160
the experience of being online

1204
00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:51,440
having looked uh the day before for a

1205
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:53,760
new phillips head screwdriver and then

1206
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:55,520
you everywhere you look

1207
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:58,079
on your computer uh you see

1208
00:43:01,750 --> 00:42:59,839
advertisements for phillips head

1209
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:01,760
screwdrivers or whatever you've looked

1210
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,480
at

1211
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:04,480
for the next six months you know they

1212
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:07,520
keep up long after you purchased one

1213
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:09,760
right and i think someone said too the

1214
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:12,000
the people who came up with that idea

1215
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:14,640
basically is if you do a search and then

1216
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:16,319
you just you know move on

1217
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,920
they know that if they keep bugging you

1218
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:19,680
the chances are that 50 of those people

1219
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:21,520
will eventually buy the product you know

1220
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,960
because you're interested in the first

1221
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:24,480
place because you clicked on it in the

1222
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:26,800
first place so they know if they just

1223
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:28,640
keep bugging you and bug you and bug you

1224
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,839
you know you say oh yeah i'm gonna buy

1225
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:31,520
it and boom you click and you

1226
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,880
and you have it and that's it they got

1227
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,560
you they got you

1228
00:43:37,589 --> 00:43:36,319
it used to be just telemarketers i mean

1229
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:37,599
there's still a lot of them around now

1230
00:43:39,910 --> 00:43:38,079
but they

1231
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:39,920
you know at least you had the ability to

1232
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:41,280
hang up on them

1233
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,880
these things are like annoying until you

1234
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:44,319
finally say all right enough already

1235
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:50,230
okay well um

1236
00:43:55,349 --> 00:43:52,720
would you like to um tell us a little

1237
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:55,359
bit about the very interesting incident

1238
00:44:00,470 --> 00:43:56,160
that you

1239
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,480
uh you wrote about on the hobart

1240
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:03,040
navy destroyer the australian navy

1241
00:44:07,349 --> 00:44:04,079
destroyer

1242
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:07,359
right back in the late 60s in vietnam

1243
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:08,079
when the vietnam

1244
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:09,760
war was really going you know full

1245
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,920
throttle there was uh well

1246
00:44:15,030 --> 00:44:13,760
between south vietnam and north vietnam

1247
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:15,040
there was this um

1248
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:16,880
what they called the demilitarized zone

1249
00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:19,280
and supposedly no one was supposed no

1250
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:20,720
troops were supposed to go in there

1251
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:22,319
as a way of keeping the two warring

1252
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:24,240
countries apart but no one ever paid

1253
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:25,359
attention to it in the

1254
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:27,280
north your knees the communist troops

1255
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:28,480
they were always in there

1256
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:29,760
they were always fighting in there so it

1257
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:31,839
was just by name only but it was just a

1258
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:33,760
way to demock the two

1259
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:35,359
countries so they started getting

1260
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,839
reports in the summer of 68 that

1261
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:39,359
there was a lot of what they called

1262
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:41,760
enemy helicopters flying over the dmz

1263
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:44,560
now you know we know that that was just

1264
00:44:49,030 --> 00:44:46,000
uh they were using

1265
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:49,040
um you know a word that a code word

1266
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:50,079
because

1267
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,680
one thing about the north knees is that

1268
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:53,280
they never had helicopters during that

1269
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:54,800
entire wall we had thousands of

1270
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:57,119
helicopters they had no helicopters so

1271
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:59,280
there were no enemy helicopters so this

1272
00:45:01,750 --> 00:45:00,560
was just the name they were given to

1273
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:01,760
these lights in the sky that people

1274
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:02,560
didn't know

1275
00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:04,880
you know what they were so this goes on

1276
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:07,040
for two or three nights and finally the

1277
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:10,960
um us air force moves up north lots of

1278
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:14,079
jet fighters and uh and uh sam missiles

1279
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:16,640
anti-aircraft missiles and one night

1280
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,160
sure enough all these uh

1281
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:20,160
lights appear in the sky the jet

1282
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,839
fighters go up and they start chasing

1283
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:23,599
these things now

1284
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:26,319
now the us government uh the military

1285
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:27,839
before this had happened they had asked

1286
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:28,720
any ships

1287
00:45:32,309 --> 00:45:30,560
in the gulf of tonkin near the dmz if

1288
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:32,319
you could just kind of be on the lookout

1289
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:33,760
because there might be some action

1290
00:45:37,270 --> 00:45:35,680
happening on this particular night and

1291
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:37,280
one of these ships was the

1292
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:40,160
um australian destroyer of the hobot so

1293
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:40,800
now

1294
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,359
our jet fighters chasing these ufos

1295
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:48,000
they fire on them but what happens is

1296
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:50,000
the missiles instead of hitting the ufos

1297
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:51,359
they hit the hobart instead and they

1298
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:52,800
kill three sailors

1299
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,440
and they injure about 40 people gosh it

1300
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:56,960
was just like chaos in fact the

1301
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:58,160
australian

1302
00:46:02,069 --> 00:46:00,160
the ships were firing back at our

1303
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:02,079
fighters that this is how chaotic this

1304
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:03,200
whole thing was

1305
00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:06,079
and then in the next morning u.s uh

1306
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:07,680
medevac helicopters went out and they

1307
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:09,520
took off the wounded and the dead the

1308
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:12,480
the ship was the best and um it sailed

1309
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:12,960
back to

1310
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:15,119
australia it was rebuilt i don't think

1311
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:16,560
it ever went back to vietnam and it was

1312
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:17,599
eventually sunk as

1313
00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:20,160
an artificial reef off of australia but

1314
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:22,160
the strange thing about this is that

1315
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:25,920
in in the united states they they

1316
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:28,800
reported the story but free of any ufo

1317
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,000
you know connection

1318
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:32,160
but they talked about it quite openly

1319
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:33,440
you know they said that this might have

1320
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:35,280
been happening and so on and so forth

1321
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:36,960
at the time that the guy was the head of

1322
00:46:40,390 --> 00:46:39,440
um general john brown who was the head

1323
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:40,400
of

1324
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:42,560
the u.s air force in vietnam he went on

1325
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:44,000
to be the the um

1326
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:46,319
on the joint chiefs of staff and he even

1327
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:47,839
said during a speech you know we used to

1328
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:49,359
see these things all the time we used to

1329
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:49,839
call them

1330
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:52,160
enemy helicopters and you know one night

1331
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:54,160
you know the hobart was in the wrong

1332
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:56,800
place at the wrong time boy oh boy

1333
00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:00,160
and all all due to to ufos but no one

1334
00:47:06,550 --> 00:47:03,599
ever actually determined

1335
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:06,560
what these lights actually were i mean

1336
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:07,280
ufo

1337
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:09,599
in this case is clearly simply

1338
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:10,640
unidentified

1339
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:13,680
flying object and not necessarily alien

1340
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:15,119
craft

1341
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:16,880
no but um you know they know what they

1342
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,560
weren't they know that they weren't

1343
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,559
enemy helicopters and you know they

1344
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:22,400
weren't jet airplanes or anything

1345
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,720
these were just um something something

1346
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:26,400
else you know something else

1347
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:29,280
and um there's a lot of ufo reports you

1348
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:31,200
know during the vietnam war this one is

1349
00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:31,599
uh

1350
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:33,040
probably the most dramatic but people

1351
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:35,119
are seeing stuff there all the time in

1352
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:36,079
fact that's the

1353
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,599
the idea of my first book you were

1354
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:39,440
frozen what time yeah they sure they

1355
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:40,880
seem to show up more and more time you

1356
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:42,160
know we've talked about it before than

1357
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:43,440
they do in peacetime

1358
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:46,079
well that's not the case in vietnam of

1359
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:46,880
course the foo

1360
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:49,920
fighters were an early example of that

1361
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:50,400
but

1362
00:47:57,030 --> 00:47:54,800
ancient history

1363
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:57,040
in certain battles in greece for

1364
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:58,160
instance and

1365
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:01,280
um and other places in the ancient world

1366
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:05,040
some of the uh

1367
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:09,839
things that were reported there were

1368
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:12,640
aerial fighters which didn't exist to

1369
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,400
our knowledge at that time

1370
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:16,640
there's a story about alexander the

1371
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:18,319
great and he was um

1372
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:20,480
you know in in the process of conquering

1373
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:21,520
the known world

1374
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:25,040
he was um in the just about to invade

1375
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,680
india

1376
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:27,760
and they were his army which was this

1377
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:29,359
huge army with elephants

1378
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:32,160
lots of houses and cavalry and troops

1379
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:32,640
and

1380
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:38,000
would go along you know that would

1381
00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:40,079
follow the military train let's say

1382
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:42,079
they're like the historians and one of

1383
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:43,359
them wrote down

1384
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:46,160
uh we were we were attacked by by arrows

1385
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:47,520
and shields flying

1386
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:50,160
flying shields and arrows so you think

1387
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:51,680
of it okay a flying shield looks a

1388
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:53,359
little bit like a flying saucer

1389
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:56,160
and an arrow you know would be like some

1390
00:48:59,349 --> 00:48:57,680
kind of a missile or something they were

1391
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:59,359
attacked and it's so much

1392
00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:01,280
and it frightened the animals so much

1393
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:03,200
that they wouldn't go across the river

1394
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:05,119
and as it turned out in the long scheme

1395
00:49:09,030 --> 00:49:07,119
of things this kind of goofed up

1396
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:09,040
alexander's plans he had to go somewhere

1397
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:10,640
else to for the river and

1398
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:12,640
you know the the idea of the momentum

1399
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:14,400
was lost and so on

1400
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:16,480
so yeah you're right i mean way way back

1401
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:17,920
throughout human history

1402
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:21,040
just go into the bible you know

1403
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:24,720
the uh uh ezekiel's wheel i believe

1404
00:49:28,710 --> 00:49:27,920
it's called right yeah you bet um you

1405
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:28,720
had something

1406
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:32,319
very interesting uh from turkey

1407
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:34,720
uh the i'm trying to think of the name

1408
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:36,800
of the battle i'm i'm

1409
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:40,000
running through what's that

1410
00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:42,480
a gallipoli gallipoli yes and i was

1411
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:44,240
myself in gallipoli

1412
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:47,440
so that really hit home for me having

1413
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:51,040
visited the site and finding out

1414
00:49:55,349 --> 00:49:53,359
after reading your book that a lot of

1415
00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:55,359
people disappeared there

1416
00:50:01,750 --> 00:49:58,800
why is this not more researched

1417
00:50:02,069 --> 00:50:01,760
or uh brought out because it seems to me

1418
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:02,079
some

1419
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:04,880
it's egregious you know right i mean

1420
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:06,720
basically the story is the thumbnail is

1421
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:08,000
is that during world war one and we were

1422
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:08,960
talking about world war

1423
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:11,119
world war one earlier uh british

1424
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:12,800
commonwealth troops so that is british

1425
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:14,640
troops new zealand troops and australian

1426
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,480
troops indian troops anyone else

1427
00:50:20,790 --> 00:50:18,240
anyone who was in like the british

1428
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:20,800
colonies at this combined army and what

1429
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:22,160
they were going to do is they wanted to

1430
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:24,160
invade turkey turkey was an ally of

1431
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:24,960
germany

1432
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:26,400
and the british thought if we can get a

1433
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:28,000
foothold in turkey we can start

1434
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:28,880
attacking

1435
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:30,240
up from the south and just basically

1436
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:32,000
give germany more headaches than it

1437
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:33,040
already had

1438
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:34,400
but they didn't plan that out very well

1439
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:35,920
and they landed all these guys on the

1440
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:37,359
beach

1441
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:39,839
and the turks were kind of in the hills

1442
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:41,520
in the mountains and they just

1443
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:42,880
slaughtered them on the beach i mean

1444
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:44,160
we're talking about how world war one

1445
00:50:47,589 --> 00:50:46,000
was a slaughter this is no different

1446
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:47,599
there's a great movie called gallipoli

1447
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:49,680
that mel gibson is in as a young man and

1448
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:50,480
it really

1449
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,119
graphically shows you know just what

1450
00:50:55,829 --> 00:50:55,040
what what a horrible situation this was

1451
00:50:58,150 --> 00:50:55,839
anyway

1452
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:58,160
so there was this british company 100

1453
00:51:02,549 --> 00:51:00,160
soldiers called the sangrenhams

1454
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:02,559
and they were named after an estate a

1455
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:04,000
largest state in the uk

1456
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:05,280
and basically what they were is they

1457
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:07,520
were the servants uh the butlers and the

1458
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:08,800
people took care of the houses and the

1459
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:09,760
farmers and everything

1460
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:11,119
they got together and they formed their

1461
00:51:14,470 --> 00:51:12,960
own military unit they were picked up by

1462
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,480
the british army and

1463
00:51:18,549 --> 00:51:16,319
you know a year later here they are in

1464
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:18,559
gallipoli well they were told to okay

1465
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:20,240
it's your turn to march forward into

1466
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:21,599
this you know just

1467
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:24,160
nothing but but machine gun fire coming

1468
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:24,960
at you

1469
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,119
there's nothing you can do about it and

1470
00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:29,280
uh and bombs and artillery and people

1471
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:31,839
saw the marching as one into the smoke

1472
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:34,160
but they never came out again never came

1473
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:35,760
out now this is in the chaos of battle

1474
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:36,160
every

1475
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:37,839
things are going crazy all over the

1476
00:51:40,870 --> 00:51:39,839
place but they would stop fighting every

1477
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:40,880
once in a while and they were

1478
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:42,400
in both sides will let the others

1479
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:44,319
retrieve their wounded and they're dead

1480
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:45,920
sure and when they went out to look for

1481
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:47,680
these guys none of them were there

1482
00:51:51,670 --> 00:51:49,440
they didn't they never found a body and

1483
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:51,680
they never found any equipment

1484
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:54,400
um you know they had very um uh back in

1485
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:55,599
those days these

1486
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:58,240
kind of small military units had uh

1487
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:59,119
uniforms that

1488
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:01,200
that that you would recognize right away

1489
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:02,720
okay you know they had their own style

1490
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,480
of uniforms back then

1491
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:06,720
and none were ever found you know and

1492
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:08,240
they they couldn't have been all blown

1493
00:52:12,069 --> 00:52:10,079
apart there were dead people everywhere

1494
00:52:13,990 --> 00:52:12,079
but for whatever reason they

1495
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:14,000
they went to this cloud together and

1496
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:15,599
wherever they went they went together

1497
00:52:17,990 --> 00:52:16,079
because

1498
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:18,000
no one ever found any trace to them at

1499
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:19,280
the end of the battle

1500
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:20,960
the commander of the british army said

1501
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:22,319
you know we we don't know what happened

1502
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:22,720
this

1503
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:24,240
whatever happened is something beyond

1504
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:26,480
understanding i think is his quote

1505
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:28,720
um so but but as you say why why hasn't

1506
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:29,839
this been looked into

1507
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:32,000
more well you know these are 100 guys

1508
00:52:35,270 --> 00:52:33,359
who died and there were thousands of

1509
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:35,280
people who died in that battle so it

1510
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:36,880
just kind of got lost in the history of

1511
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:37,839
it

1512
00:52:41,829 --> 00:52:41,040
yeah well gallipoli place uh having

1513
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:41,839
visited

1514
00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:45,520
it um maybe six or seven years ago

1515
00:52:53,109 --> 00:52:49,760
it is um a haunting sort of uh

1516
00:52:57,030 --> 00:52:53,119
an area there's something about it

1517
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:57,040
that is uh is causes you to pause

1518
00:53:01,829 --> 00:53:00,480
and think and it's not just like a a

1519
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:01,839
military

1520
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:05,359
um battlefield i've been on a number of

1521
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:08,160
places around the us uh civil war

1522
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:10,400
battlefields and so forth and

1523
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:13,280
i i know that gettysburg can seem

1524
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:14,079
actually quite

1525
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:16,559
haunted and i know people who have had

1526
00:53:20,390 --> 00:53:17,280
sightings

1527
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:20,400
of uh sort of um ghost things

1528
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:24,000
in uh in gettysburg but this place it

1529
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:25,280
just seemed

1530
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:28,400
very still and uh somber

1531
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:31,359
in a a prater natural way i guess i

1532
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:33,040
would say

1533
00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:35,920
well you know i guess if if there's if

1534
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:37,599
there's ghosts anywhere there's ghosts

1535
00:53:40,309 --> 00:53:38,559
there because

1536
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:40,319
you know just thousands of people lost

1537
00:53:42,069 --> 00:53:41,680
their lives there you know for no good

1538
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:42,079
reason

1539
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:43,440
because they just basically put everyone

1540
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:46,079
back in the ships and sailed away so

1541
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:47,440
just one of those things that happens in

1542
00:53:54,790 --> 00:53:49,839
war stupid yes yes so

1543
00:54:00,069 --> 00:53:58,150
wow good question um i i'm i'm writing

1544
00:54:02,309 --> 00:54:00,079
uh the wingman 19 that

1545
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:02,319
series we were talking about earlier uh

1546
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:04,079
that's going to come out sometime

1547
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:07,200
early next year i'm doing a um

1548
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:10,079
a military detective series called

1549
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:11,359
starman

1550
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:14,640
uh by the navy um detective who has just

1551
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:17,200
a little bit of esp to help him

1552
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:20,000
solve his cases and um and and we do

1553
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:21,599
have radio show mac morning's military

1554
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:23,520
style show not to be any competition to

1555
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:24,000
you

1556
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:27,359
oh no i we we love other radio shows and

1557
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:28,160
podcasts

1558
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:31,359
and you can mention it there's no uh

1559
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:33,680
there's no competition involved there's

1560
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:34,720
room for

1561
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:37,040
all of us we all have a slightly

1562
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:38,000
different slant

1563
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:40,480
on it and uh no worries about

1564
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:42,400
advertising it be my guest

1565
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,480
okay we um really looked at the ufo

1566
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:49,359
situation in the paranormal you know uh

1567
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:50,480
situation

1568
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:53,280
uh from a military point of view and and

1569
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:53,760
we have

1570
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:55,680
a lot of i guess uh you know military

1571
00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:58,480
former military or people who work for

1572
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,160
uh you know the intelligence agencies

1573
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:02,480
there's no other way to put it um

1574
00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:04,559
one of our co-hosts uh goes by the name

1575
00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:06,319
of commander cobra he did four tours of

1576
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:08,240
duty flying over iraq

1577
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:11,040
he's uh to this day involved in these

1578
00:55:14,549 --> 00:55:12,720
kind of defense department

1579
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:14,559
programs in fact he did one show where

1580
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:17,040
he was he was flying a test program

1581
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:19,520
over the over the gulf right off of cape

1582
00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:20,400
cod

1583
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,799
doing the show so we actually had one of

1584
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:24,559
our co-hosts at 20 000 feet

1585
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:27,760
for a show and um so a lot of military

1586
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:29,440
kind of intelligence gathering stuff

1587
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:30,240
like that but

1588
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,440
but you know we don't take it too

1589
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:33,520
seriously but we we try to get really

1590
00:55:37,190 --> 00:55:35,280
good guests and try to get really good

1591
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:37,200
discussions about

1592
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:39,520
what the military does know and what it

1593
00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:41,040
doesn't know and how they react to

1594
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:42,880
certain things too is always really

1595
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:44,160
interesting

1596
00:55:47,589 --> 00:55:46,960
well that that sounds quite fascinating

1597
00:55:50,789 --> 00:55:47,599
and

1598
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:50,799
is it uh is it online is it uh or is it

1599
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:52,000
just at the time

1600
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:54,319
of the show no we're from i think we're

1601
00:55:56,789 --> 00:55:55,040
in about eight

1602
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:56,799
eight networks one of them we're on the

1603
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:58,960
dark matter network kcor

1604
00:56:03,190 --> 00:56:01,119
in vegas um we're on the uh we're

1605
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:03,200
syndicated by radioactive broadcasting

1606
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:04,559
and they provide com uh

1607
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:07,920
content to uh armed forces radio so

1608
00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:10,079
you know we're we're pretty spread out

1609
00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:11,599
you know

1610
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:13,599
yeah yeah but it's fun we and we like

1611
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:14,880
doing it's interesting

1612
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:17,920
i had one other comment on your

1613
00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:21,280
writing a book um about a

1614
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:24,400
guy in the navy who is uh is into the

1615
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,920
paranormal i assume

1616
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:28,079
and i you know this is just me

1617
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:30,160
speculating that you do

1618
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:32,640
know about the navy remote viewing

1619
00:56:35,829 --> 00:56:33,760
program

1620
00:56:37,510 --> 00:56:35,839
sure yeah we've had um you know guests

1621
00:56:39,109 --> 00:56:37,520
on from time to time

1622
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:39,119
talking about that that's another story

1623
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:40,799
that you know i don't think very many

1624
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:42,319
people realize but

1625
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:44,640
that the us military you know uh

1626
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:46,480
supposedly it ended in the 90s i don't

1627
00:56:50,470 --> 00:56:48,240
believe it did but they actually

1628
00:56:51,430 --> 00:56:50,480
recruited people who had you know higher

1629
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:51,440
esp than

1630
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:54,000
you know as regular folks and uh these

1631
00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:55,119
people were you know

1632
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:57,119
basically giving programs to our

1633
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:58,640
projects to

1634
00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:00,880
like look for russian submarines look

1635
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:03,280
for secret russian icbm bases things of

1636
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:04,640
that nature but what was interesting

1637
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:06,079
about it is

1638
00:57:09,270 --> 00:57:08,400
they never used what they they use their

1639
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:09,280
information as

1640
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,760
backup so a satellite might pick up a

1641
00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:13,200
russian submarine

1642
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:14,799
you know at a certain coordinates or

1643
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:16,720
whatever they would ask the people who

1644
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:19,920
you know had the uh esp capability do

1645
00:57:22,710 --> 00:57:21,040
you see anything and

1646
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:22,720
they would they would actually back up

1647
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:25,359
the fact of what the satellite saw

1648
00:57:31,030 --> 00:57:28,640
so you know i mean they did some really

1649
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:31,040
unusual things and it's just so odd that

1650
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:32,640
the u.s military was paying for it but

1651
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,000
the russians did the same thing

1652
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:36,960
yes they did they did and in fact the

1653
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:37,599
the u.s

1654
00:57:44,309 --> 00:57:40,720
government had several separate

1655
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:44,319
remote viewing projects i'm most

1656
00:57:48,789 --> 00:57:45,599
familiar with

1657
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:48,799
the defense intelligence agency

1658
00:57:53,349 --> 00:57:51,040
project that went on in the army air

1659
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,359
force but then there was a different one

1660
00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:54,960
and purportedly

1661
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:57,760
uh the navy group didn't know what the

1662
00:58:03,190 --> 00:58:00,240
army group was doing and vice versa

1663
00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:03,200
and we've had quite a few of of of those

1664
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:03,920
former

1665
00:58:11,109 --> 00:58:07,119
government remote viewers on um

1666
00:58:13,589 --> 00:58:11,119
this show on our podcast here

1667
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:13,599
simply because i've studied with some of

1668
00:58:16,630 --> 00:58:14,160
them

1669
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:16,640
and they're very interesting folks in

1670
00:58:20,950 --> 00:58:17,520
any case

1671
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:20,960
i want to thank you so much for being on

1672
00:58:26,549 --> 00:58:24,079
shattered reality podcast and i hope

1673
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:26,559
that you will come back again sometime

1674
00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:27,200
with

1675
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:30,319
a new book we don't usually do that much

1676
00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:31,760
with fiction but we're

1677
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:34,960
if you need uh one of your books uh your

1678
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:36,240
fictional books

1679
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:38,000
mentioned we'll be happy to mention your

1680
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:39,440
fictional books but

1681
00:58:43,109 --> 00:58:42,079
um we will certainly interview you again

1682
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:43,119
when you

1683
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:46,799
uh write another fact based book

1684
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:50,160
okay sounds good so thanks mack and uh

1685
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:52,720
you can take care now you too thanks a

1686
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:54,240
lot thanks for having me

1687
00:59:00,710 --> 00:58:57,359
bye now wow

1688
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,720
that was an interesting one um uh mac

1689
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:02,640
maloney who has

1690
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:05,040
a series called wingman but he doesn't

1691
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:06,319
like to fly so

1692
00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:08,640
go figure that out but he sounds like a

1693
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:10,240
great guy somebody that

1694
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:13,280
we would like to meet um and he's

1695
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:13,680
written

1696
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:15,599
some very interesting books the

1697
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:18,640
fictional as well as of

1698
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:21,680
the non-fictional and uh

1699
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:25,040
we are looking forward to this coming

1700
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:27,440
holiday season where we're going to have

1701
00:59:31,670 --> 00:59:28,240
a number of

1702
00:59:33,030 --> 00:59:31,680
other wonderful guests coming our way so

1703
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:33,040
please

1704
00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:36,880
like us on facebook shattered reality

1705
00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:38,079
podcast

1706
00:59:49,309 --> 00:59:41,280
there's a facebook page there are two

1707
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:50,789
shatteredrealitypodcast.wordpress.com

1708
00:59:58,470 --> 00:59:54,400
we are also featured on a number of

1709
01:00:02,230 --> 00:59:58,480
other sites including itunes

1710
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:02,240
youtube and stitcher and more are coming

1711
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:03,119
up every day

1712
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:06,400
so click on us wherever you'd like to

1713
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:09,760
uh make comments on the site and if you

1714
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:10,799
would like

1715
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:13,920
uh to recommend a guest we do take our

1716
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:15,920
guest recommendations

1717
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:19,280
very seriously and do contact

1718
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:22,960
people so for myself

1719
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:26,640
and the currently absent kate valentine